#archlinux32 | Logs for 2021-07-16

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[08:21:30] <buildmaster> Hi abaumann!
[08:21:30] <buildmaster> !rq abaumann
[08:21:31] <phrik> buildmaster: <abaumann> I'm back, together with my lazy build slaves..
[08:38:42] <abaumann> I really hate to say it, but I was never able to build an ISO for Archlinux32. releng/build-iso has a call to mkarchiso (which I suppose is the installed version from the archiso32 git repo), all I get is '[mkarchiso] ERROR: Invalid command name '/usr/share/archiso/configs/releng''. Also playing with init, install, etc. didn't produce an ISO for me.
[08:40:14] <abaumann> 'init' creates a work directory but only with a pacman db in it, no packages installed
[08:42:03] <abaumann> setarch and so indicate, the iso was built on a 64-bit Archlinux, but I fail to see how that can work. I'll try a virtual machine..
[08:50:00] <bill-auger> our fork says explicitly, that it must be run on an x86_64 host - not sure why though - i just assumed that is because it makes a dual-arch ISO by default - i never tried it on a 32bit host
[08:50:28] <abaumann> yeah, IIRC our dual is broken at the moment. :-(
[08:50:56] <bill-auger> it is - there is an open ticket about it - our 32bit builds are broken too
[08:51:50] <abaumann> I wanted to test archinstall and brltty, which are fixed now.. I'll make a dedicated VM for ISO building..
[08:52:02] <bill-auger> i explained it on the ticket - i think we should collaborate on it - upstream may need some changes to make the dual-arch ISOs possible again
[08:52:11] <abaumann> I also did a special 486 ISO with stripped down anything, so you can boot with little memory.
[08:52:35] <abaumann> I personally never used duals, I know deep42thought did. :-)
[08:53:04] <abaumann> let me first see, if I can create a non-dual (single) version..
[08:53:15] <bill-auger> i dont want to make them anymore either - i dont think any users want them
[08:53:51] <bill-auger> people mostly want the smallest download - most people never even keep a copy after the install
[08:54:10] <bill-auger> so we make separate single-arch ISOs
[08:54:27] <abaumann> yeah. ISO nowadays usually means USB-stick, till installed. Nobody keeps a stack of nice ISOs around anymore. :-)
[08:55:19] <bill-auger> right, and unlike CDs, they cost more than 10 cents each, so people want to re-use them
[08:56:19] <bill-auger> that 486 ISO is interesting - i may want to look at that - ive been working on a 'mini' ISO, which is bascically a normal CLI ISO, but boots directly into X+calamares
[08:57:03] <bill-auger> adding X + calamares, nearly doubles the file size, so i was wondering how much of the base system i could trim off
[08:58:17] <abaumann> https://git.archlinux32.org the TODOS names some problems I encountered on the way reducing memory to 64MB..
[08:59:31] <abaumann> graphical ISO, nice idea. :-)
[09:00:27] <bill-auger> well we have those too, the typical live desktop system - but this one has no desktop, only calamares
[09:01:05] <abaumann> so, graphical installer
[09:02:21] <abaumann> I have to have a closer look at archinstall from upstream.. ideally it could start in flavours 1) serial line, 2) simple CLI, 3) TUI, 4) GUI and write the same JSON config file and then install the system.
[09:02:31] <bill-auger> that what the debian installer is like now - you can choose CLI or graphical install, but no live system
[09:02:58] <abaumann> I also have to have a look at calamares of course :-)
[09:03:04] <bill-auger> the new arch CLI installer was a good idea, we have always had one - but it is not any more user-friendly to non-techies - non-techies really need a mouse-clicky installer
[09:03:52] <abaumann> true. but I have a hunch that after speech support they will also go into a GUI direction..
[09:06:21] <bill-auger> parabola also had braille and TTS for many years - i did not realize that arch would be interested in those additions
[09:06:46] <bill-auger> if you wanted calamares now, you could probalby use parabola's, nearly as-is - IIRC you would only need to change the logo and a few user-facing strings in the config file
[09:06:47] <abaumann> There is quite a shift in strategy upstream later..
[09:07:16] <abaumann> our policy is still, deviate from Archlinux upstream as little as possible.
[09:07:28] <bill-auger> it is made to be highly-configurable without re-compiling - most debian derivative that use it, just use the debian binary package, and re-brand it
[09:08:07] <abaumann> There is an argument for it: we had people with old 32-bit computers, but the standard Archlinux way was just over their heads.
[09:08:19] <bill-auger> that is our policy too - but i dont mind deviating for the sake of making it wasier for non-tecnical to get it installed
[09:10:31] <bill-auger> installing the OS is the most complicated and daunting part for most people - if they can get over that hurdle, the OS can be used wit no more expertise than a more user-friendly distro like debian/ubuntu
[09:11:39] <bill-auger> its really the only thing that justifies the myth that arch is only for experts
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[12:48:39] <abaumann> So, I give up on mkarchiso, doesn't work for me..
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[13:02:49] <bill-auger> you could use parabolaiso - probably only the pacman.conf would be different
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[16:29:37] <buildmaster> Hi abaumann!
[16:29:38] <buildmaster> !rq abaumann
[16:29:38] <phrik> buildmaster: <abaumann> Though I find it slightly funny: everything goes to 64-bit and 32-bit gets dropped, and then a 32-bit version of the OS is the main OS for the new 64-bit machines..
[16:53:02] <bill-auger> abaumann: revenis
[16:53:35] <bill-auger> you could use parabolaiso to make an arch32 ISO if you need to - probably only the pacman.conf would be different
[16:54:51] <bill-auger> $ git clone -b unified https://git.parabola.nu
[16:54:51] <bill-auger> the 'unified' branch allows building ISOs in-tree (from the git repo) - it also allows making single-arch ISOs - the build can be configured easily using the helper script: configs/profile/rebuild.sh
[16:54:53] <phrik> Title: parabolaiso.git - Tools for creating Parabola GNU/Linux-libre live and install iso images (at git.parabola.nu)
[16:55:28] <bill-auger> the rebuild.sh defaults make the standard systemd/CLI ISO for x86_64 - you would only need to change TARGET='i686' (and tweak configs/profile/pacman.conf)
[16:55:53] <bill-auger> then cd configs/profile && sudo ./rebuild.sh
[16:55:53] <bill-auger> if you need to tweak the package list, see doc/README.package_lists
[17:02:21] <abaumann> ok. thanks. I'll give that one a try.
[17:03:48] <bill-auger> oh, i see a few more tweaks - youd also need to edit build.sh a bit
[17:03:57] <bill-auger> LOC 30,31:
[17:03:57] <bill-auger> iso_label="ARCH_$(date +%Y%m)"
[17:03:57] <bill-auger> iso_dirname='parabola'
[17:04:06] <bill-auger> LOC 432:
[17:04:06] <bill-auger> iso_title="whatever you want"
[17:04:40] <bill-auger> anything goes wrong, just ping me - i know that code like the back of my hand
[17:06:33] <bill-auger> the changes on 30,31 are standard - they could be passed from rebuild.sh also, with -L and -D
[17:07:40] <bill-auger> 'iso_title' is custom, because ${iso_edition} (also custom) depends on the other CLI options, which would not be known until after the getopts clause
[17:09:24] <bill-auger> iso_edition is like: systemd/CLI, openrc/LXDE, etc - arch32 woudnt need iso_edition
[17:10:24] <bill-auger> 'iso_title' is arbitrary - i think the only place it is shows, is the MOTD upon login
[17:11:01] <abaumann> mmh, I like the continue.sh script :-)
[17:11:10] <bill-auger> yea thats erm needed sometimes
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