#archlinux32 | Logs for 2022-05-28
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[01:08:22] <bill-auger> eloy: its quite low for a CLI system
[01:08:50] <eloy> bill-auger: for context, I have a 24MiB system
[01:09:14] <bill-auger> probably less than 96MB
[01:10:03] <bill-auger> youre probably not going to find any distro that fits n that machine - even tinycore requires 64MB IIRC
[01:10:55] <bill-auger> if you absolutely ,ust boot the system, you could probebly make a large swap file
[01:11:03] <KitsuWhooa> I couldn't boot arch32 with 256MB, sooooo
[01:11:09] <KitsuWhooa> initramfs didn't fit
[01:11:13] <bill-auger> it will run quite slow of course
[01:11:57] <KitsuWhooa> I was linked to https://git.archlinux32.org but I never got around to messing with it
[01:11:58] <bill-auger> i think the i486 port is leaner
[01:11:58] <phrik> Title: archi486 - Archlinux32 i486 tools (at git.archlinux32.org)
[01:12:13] <KitsuWhooa> you'll basically need to make your own image with that, picking only the basics you need for the initramfs to be small enough
[01:12:57] <bill-auger> yes youd probalby need a custom kernel, so at least that will fit in RAM before mounting the swap
[01:13:32] <KitsuWhooa> could probably run openwrt on it :p
[01:14:02] <bill-auger> yes or proteanos is similar
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[01:33:37] <eloy> oh that's actually not a bad idea, I might try that
[06:05:38] <KillerWasp> even if you had an operating system that fit much less than 24MB (which I think can be achieved with LFS if you restrict the kernel enough), you'd still have programs that need like 1GB or more of memory. It is time to program all the programs and systems from scratch to replace the kernel and all its applications, so that it is as light as the DOS programs in the 486 era.
[06:06:15] <KillerWasp> But who would go to the trouble of doing all that work?
[06:06:18] <KillerWasp> !shrug
[06:06:19] <phrik> ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
[08:44:23] <bill-auger> all those DOS programs still exist - one could run freedos on that machine
[09:37:22] <KillerWasp> bill-auger: yes, i know.
[09:37:45] <KillerWasp> well, i run dos programs in dosbox, no in freedos.
[09:38:51] <KillerWasp> like qbasic, lotus 123, quatro pro, battle chess, wordstar, professional write, protocad, banner mania, etc.
[09:40:02] <KillerWasp> but for linux today maybe is need a rewrite of all those programs, for fit in a very low resource
[09:40:35] <KillerWasp> also like win 3.1 and your programs for windows
[09:40:56] <KillerWasp> they can run still in 3MB of RAM
[09:41:16] <KillerWasp> with several programs opened
[09:43:26] <KillerWasp> Nothing has really changed. Except in the programmers and the way they program their libraries or programs. One wonders what they are failing, because even if you have no programming experience, it is difficult for a poorly made program to occupy so many gigabytes.
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[15:53:34] <Vorpal> Hi, I need an OS for pentium 3 that i basically only for data recovery purposes (it still supports pre-LBA hard drives, so it is useful as a midpoint computer for archiving really old things). Since I use Arch Linux on my modern computers I was wondering of archlinux32 would be suitable. I know normal arch linux is not happy if you update too rarely, and was wondering if that will be an issue in arch linux 32 as well?
[15:54:10] <Vorpal> as I expect this pentium 3 could easily go months without being powered on
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[18:10:43] <bill-auger> Vorpal: arch32 is suitable - those machines are the only reason it exists
[18:12:00] <Vorpal> bill-auger: good. I was just worried it might break if I upgrade it after not using it for half a year. Which I'm positive that normal arch linux would
[18:12:27] <bill-auger> your concern about packages is curious - it is not necessary to upgrade packages, ever - if the computer boots once, then just leave the software as it is, and it will continue to boot forever
[18:12:35] <Vorpal> hm true
[18:12:37] <bill-auger> dont upgrade
[18:13:03] <Vorpal> bill-auger: it will be networked, I plan to do the backups from disks I connect to it to my NAS over nfs
[18:13:09] <bill-auger> there is absolutely no reason to upgrade a system that is used only for offline purposes
[18:13:10] <Vorpal> thus caring about upgrades
[18:13:54] <Vorpal> it has 100 mbit networking. Hm now I need to remember if it had CD boot. It definitely didn't have USB boot I know that. I hope I don't need a boot floppy though
[18:14:12] <bill-auger> even with that use-case, you probably do not need network - you can probably plug you NAS into the computer with USB cable
[18:14:44] <Vorpal> bill-auger: nope, my NAS is a home built modern-ish PC that I repurposed for that.
[18:15:07] <bill-auger> but that use-case does not requre the internet , so there is no obvious threat
[18:15:09] <Vorpal> bill-auger: anyway I don't plan to do *internet* with it.
[18:15:11] <Vorpal> so yeah
[18:15:54] <Vorpal> one possible issue is what happens if I discover I need additional packages some time down the line, without running pacman -Syu, how long do older builds stay around on the mirrors?
[18:16:12] <bill-auger> if the system breaks you can always re-install it
[18:16:25] <Vorpal> true...
[18:21:43] <bill-auger> FWIW all of these worries strongly suggest that you want an LTS distro
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[18:22:54] <Vorpal> bill-auger: yes that has been the nagging doubt. which is the only reason I haven't already installed archlinux32
[18:22:58] <bill-auger> slackware just had a new release a few months ago - that would remain stable for many years to come
[18:23:33] <Vorpal> hm, I used slackware way back in the early 2000s. Has package management gotten any better since then? I was thinking about debian as another option
[18:23:41] <Vorpal> they still have a 32-bit release
[18:24:26] <bill-auger> yes that is about the size of the list - arch32, slackware, and debian
[18:25:31] <Vorpal> bill-auger: I think alpine also came up in my search. But pretty much
[18:25:41] <Vorpal> never used alpine outside a few docker images
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